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	<title>Comments on: Money Literacy &#8211; Part V</title>
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	<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/21/money-literacy-part-v/</link>
	<description>Permaculture News, Commentary and Worldwide Projects.</description>
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		<title>By: Thomas Fischbacher</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/21/money-literacy-part-v/#comment-66010</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Fischbacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2398#comment-66010</guid>
		<description>Dan,

...and that&#039;s what such &quot;Schwundgeld&quot; currencies are all about: giving people a strong incentive to focus their thinking on real value and how to create it, rather than on hoarding the economic grease.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,</p>
<p>&#8230;and that&#8217;s what such &#8220;Schwundgeld&#8221; currencies are all about: giving people a strong incentive to focus their thinking on real value and how to create it, rather than on hoarding the economic grease.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/21/money-literacy-part-v/#comment-44134</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 16:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2398#comment-44134</guid>
		<description>So, with any money system that steals value for circulation in the &quot;greater&quot; community good.  Its best to store your value in products of real value and not currency!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, with any money system that steals value for circulation in the &#8220;greater&#8221; community good.  Its best to store your value in products of real value and not currency!</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Fischbacher</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/21/money-literacy-part-v/#comment-40765</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Fischbacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 10:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2398#comment-40765</guid>
		<description>Glen,

as I wrote, the key point is that this &quot;democratic money&quot; is flexible; the rules of the game can be tweaked, and occasionally are. Usually only slightly, of course, because no one would like to use any money that behaves in a different way each new week, but there have been, and are, some on-going experiments how to develop the scheme further.

An interesting question might be: would it be useful to have a how-to-guide for replicating this scheme (or one similar to it)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glen,</p>
<p>as I wrote, the key point is that this &#8220;democratic money&#8221; is flexible; the rules of the game can be tweaked, and occasionally are. Usually only slightly, of course, because no one would like to use any money that behaves in a different way each new week, but there have been, and are, some on-going experiments how to develop the scheme further.</p>
<p>An interesting question might be: would it be useful to have a how-to-guide for replicating this scheme (or one similar to it)?</p>
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		<title>By: Glen Novello</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/21/money-literacy-part-v/#comment-40747</link>
		<dc:creator>Glen Novello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2398#comment-40747</guid>
		<description>I like how the Chiemgauer system has a built in tax system in the form of depreciation that works even in a so called &quot;black economy&quot; but a flat tax system doesn&#039;t help solve any proportional discrepancy&#039;s in who holds the money.

Besides changing the reserve ratio back to 1:1 for banks, I think that its crucial for us to come up with a fair and effective tax system that encourages people with the biggest surpluses to contribute more. Ever since Thatcher and Reagan came to power we have been heading in the opposite direction in an alarming rate to the extent of blurring the boundaries between free enterprise and slavery</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like how the Chiemgauer system has a built in tax system in the form of depreciation that works even in a so called &#8220;black economy&#8221; but a flat tax system doesn&#8217;t help solve any proportional discrepancy&#8217;s in who holds the money.</p>
<p>Besides changing the reserve ratio back to 1:1 for banks, I think that its crucial for us to come up with a fair and effective tax system that encourages people with the biggest surpluses to contribute more. Ever since Thatcher and Reagan came to power we have been heading in the opposite direction in an alarming rate to the extent of blurring the boundaries between free enterprise and slavery</p>
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		<title>By: Johan</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/21/money-literacy-part-v/#comment-40722</link>
		<dc:creator>Johan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 06:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2398#comment-40722</guid>
		<description>Yes! You are free to accept only certain money. That is the essence of free market. In reality, there will be entrepreneurs akin to present money changer who will setup services for people to exchange the different forms of money. The exchange rate will of course depend on supply and demand, with the money changer taking a percentage as profit for their service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes! You are free to accept only certain money. That is the essence of free market. In reality, there will be entrepreneurs akin to present money changer who will setup services for people to exchange the different forms of money. The exchange rate will of course depend on supply and demand, with the money changer taking a percentage as profit for their service.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Fischbacher</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/21/money-literacy-part-v/#comment-40688</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Fischbacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 18:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2398#comment-40688</guid>
		<description>Johan,

I mostly agree. Note in particular that what you say implies that I am perfectly free to consider anyone deluded who thinks a pretty much useless curiosity such as &quot;precious metals&quot; have any economic value beyond the few proper uses we know for them. (Gold, for example, forms an eutectic with Silicon that is very useful for bonding ICs.) To me, gold and silver don&#039;t have much of a value. There are a number of other things that do, however. As, for example, clean energy generating capacity. But if someone wanted to purchase my energy paying with gold, I&#039;d tell him: &quot;go find someone first who&#039;s about as deluded as you are and thinks your gold is as valuable in comparison to my energy you think it is, and trade it for something I also consider as valuable.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johan,</p>
<p>I mostly agree. Note in particular that what you say implies that I am perfectly free to consider anyone deluded who thinks a pretty much useless curiosity such as &#8220;precious metals&#8221; have any economic value beyond the few proper uses we know for them. (Gold, for example, forms an eutectic with Silicon that is very useful for bonding ICs.) To me, gold and silver don&#8217;t have much of a value. There are a number of other things that do, however. As, for example, clean energy generating capacity. But if someone wanted to purchase my energy paying with gold, I&#8217;d tell him: &#8220;go find someone first who&#8217;s about as deluded as you are and thinks your gold is as valuable in comparison to my energy you think it is, and trade it for something I also consider as valuable.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Johan</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/21/money-literacy-part-v/#comment-40666</link>
		<dc:creator>Johan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 02:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2398#comment-40666</guid>
		<description>Productivity is indeed what generates wealth. Money is simply a convenient byproduct for people to exchange the fruits of their labour. That is exactly how money came to be. At the most basic level, two producer exchanged goods. The baker exchanged a loaf of bread for a dozen of eggs from the poultry farmer. This is called direct exchange. Often it happens that the farmer doesn&#039;t want bread but fish. So the baker has to exchange the bread for fish, and then exchange the fish for the eggs. This is indirect exchange. Fish is the medium of exchange. Fish is the money. It serves as a temporary value storage until it is exchanged with the end product that the baker wants. Note that indeed, money is created through productive activities, eg. the baker, the farmer, the fisherman.

Warehousing played the function of present day banks. People store their goods in the warehouse for reasons such as safety and convenience. The warehouses issue certificate of deposit. Instead of physically exchanging products in a trade, people simply exchange the warehouse certificates. Over time, certain commodity became popular and emerge as the choice for money in most transactions. These were various forms of precious metals such as gold and silver. The warehouses continue to evolve into present day banks by storing money as deposits as well as lending out money for interest. As paper technology improves, paper warehouse certificates of gold/silver deposits became more popular. It is much easier and safer to carry paper than actual gold and silver coins that can be quite heavy and voluminous. 

Often many different forms of money are available and used in the market. Various gold and silver coins from different minters were available. There were no rules that mandate certain money to be used. Each seller and buyer are free to accept and offer any form of money they wish. In any case, there is a commodity backing the money. 

Fast forward to present days, money is no longer backed by any commodity such that it necessitates the legal tender law in order to force acceptance by the market. We all grew up in the time where money is believed to be a special object that needs to be specially regulated. But it is not true. Money is a commodity, just like any others. Money originated in the free market, out of productive activities by the people. That, we need to understand before we can identify the roots of current economic problems and think of a fix.

[1] http://mises.org/mysteryofbanking/mysteryofbanking.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Productivity is indeed what generates wealth. Money is simply a convenient byproduct for people to exchange the fruits of their labour. That is exactly how money came to be. At the most basic level, two producer exchanged goods. The baker exchanged a loaf of bread for a dozen of eggs from the poultry farmer. This is called direct exchange. Often it happens that the farmer doesn&#8217;t want bread but fish. So the baker has to exchange the bread for fish, and then exchange the fish for the eggs. This is indirect exchange. Fish is the medium of exchange. Fish is the money. It serves as a temporary value storage until it is exchanged with the end product that the baker wants. Note that indeed, money is created through productive activities, eg. the baker, the farmer, the fisherman.</p>
<p>Warehousing played the function of present day banks. People store their goods in the warehouse for reasons such as safety and convenience. The warehouses issue certificate of deposit. Instead of physically exchanging products in a trade, people simply exchange the warehouse certificates. Over time, certain commodity became popular and emerge as the choice for money in most transactions. These were various forms of precious metals such as gold and silver. The warehouses continue to evolve into present day banks by storing money as deposits as well as lending out money for interest. As paper technology improves, paper warehouse certificates of gold/silver deposits became more popular. It is much easier and safer to carry paper than actual gold and silver coins that can be quite heavy and voluminous. </p>
<p>Often many different forms of money are available and used in the market. Various gold and silver coins from different minters were available. There were no rules that mandate certain money to be used. Each seller and buyer are free to accept and offer any form of money they wish. In any case, there is a commodity backing the money. </p>
<p>Fast forward to present days, money is no longer backed by any commodity such that it necessitates the legal tender law in order to force acceptance by the market. We all grew up in the time where money is believed to be a special object that needs to be specially regulated. But it is not true. Money is a commodity, just like any others. Money originated in the free market, out of productive activities by the people. That, we need to understand before we can identify the roots of current economic problems and think of a fix.</p>
<p>[1] <a href="http://mises.org/mysteryofbanking/mysteryofbanking.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://mises.org/mysteryofbanking/mysteryofbanking.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Fischbacher</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/21/money-literacy-part-v/#comment-40614</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Fischbacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2398#comment-40614</guid>
		<description>Money - any form of it - actually is a very poor way to store value. True value lies in productive assets. Creating a forest where there previously was desert produces value. Setting up money rules in such a way that it runs in alignment with these values, rather than counter to them, should be the guiding principle.

Personally, I like the idea of a clean energy production capacity backed money system. But I&#039;m undecided yet whether basing money e.g. on clean water might actually make more sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Money &#8211; any form of it &#8211; actually is a very poor way to store value. True value lies in productive assets. Creating a forest where there previously was desert produces value. Setting up money rules in such a way that it runs in alignment with these values, rather than counter to them, should be the guiding principle.</p>
<p>Personally, I like the idea of a clean energy production capacity backed money system. But I&#8217;m undecided yet whether basing money e.g. on clean water might actually make more sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Johan</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/21/money-literacy-part-v/#comment-40598</link>
		<dc:creator>Johan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2398#comment-40598</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s very true, the key for sound money is a tangible good backing it such as the promissory notes of the restaurant or the book publishing example. Any form of money that has tangible good backing is better than the fiat money we all grow up with. It&#039;s very true that part of the challenge lies in educating people about money, how it came to be, what is it now, and to differentiate between sound money and fiat currency. 

Any expansion of the money supply must come as a result of increased productivity and thus increased true wealth. This is in contrast to the current fiat system whereby any increase in the money supply will result in destruction of its value (inflation) and thus making people poorer. Expansion of money supply by a central bank also redistributes wealth unfairly in the sense that early recipients benefit by being able to spend more at today&#039;s prices before the effect of inflation sets. Eventually, the increased money will trickle to everyone, but those who receive the increase later will be worse off because prices have risen and thus the value of their money would have decreased. Often the decrease in money value is more than the increased supply received. (Has your wage rises keep up with inflation rate?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s very true, the key for sound money is a tangible good backing it such as the promissory notes of the restaurant or the book publishing example. Any form of money that has tangible good backing is better than the fiat money we all grow up with. It&#8217;s very true that part of the challenge lies in educating people about money, how it came to be, what is it now, and to differentiate between sound money and fiat currency. </p>
<p>Any expansion of the money supply must come as a result of increased productivity and thus increased true wealth. This is in contrast to the current fiat system whereby any increase in the money supply will result in destruction of its value (inflation) and thus making people poorer. Expansion of money supply by a central bank also redistributes wealth unfairly in the sense that early recipients benefit by being able to spend more at today&#8217;s prices before the effect of inflation sets. Eventually, the increased money will trickle to everyone, but those who receive the increase later will be worse off because prices have risen and thus the value of their money would have decreased. Often the decrease in money value is more than the increased supply received. (Has your wage rises keep up with inflation rate?)</p>
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