Comments on: No More Dirty Gold

By: Francis Galt

Francis Galt — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 04:53:04 +0000

All paper monies create a moral hazard as institutions then have the ability to immorally inflate the money supply, commodity backed currencies do not allow for imperfect beings to redirect capital in the direction they see most fit. Gold, although mining has shown to be impure for the environment, stores value and serves as the best medium for exchange since man can not duplicate at will. In order for permacultural currencies to survive, they must be backed by a non-inflatable commodity as the demand for money increases, or else the new money will dilute the hard work produced by previous generations.

By: Johan

Johan — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 21:43:51 +0000

Gold is a commodity, just like many other stuff. It is subject to supply and demand. As the worlds experiment with fiat money is shaking and people lose faith in the value of paper currency, demand for gold and other precious metals will continue to climb. So far no other object fits the characteristics for sound money as well as gold and silver. Industrial metals are much more abundant and subject to substitution (eg. communication used to depend on copper wires, now replaced with fiber optic and wireless). Hence the value is unstable.

Mining is always a dirty process. As consumers, we can choose to support only responsible gold miners. Initiate a process of independent review for gold producers and establish a rating to indicate their impact on people and environment. We have it for food (organic, free range, caged eggs). We can have it for any other consumer objects if we demand for it.

By: Glen Novello

Glen Novello — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:19:31 +0000

Well Im against all mining of gold that wastes energy and resources on something that’s almost useless and we would never need anymore of than what we already have.
As an atheist I am beginning to wonder if the story about Adam and Eve had a typo in it, and the apple was meant to be written as “Golden apple”. The moral of the story would make more sense if the Golden apple was put there amongst other perfectly normal apples to tempt Adam and Eve into greed and vanity rather than enjoying the wonders and tastes of what has been provided for us in abundance.

By: Noel

Noel — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:05:17 +0000

I doubt that there is any situation that can justify “dirty gold” but it seemed that many of the author’s critisms are directed at the whole gold business, not just the dirty stuff.

Opencut mining does produce much more waste than underground but the number of injuries and deaths of miners is considerably smaller in opencut mining. It also does created large holes in the ground but is this necessarily bad per see? Much of the wastte here in Australia is used for construction, infrastructure etc. It would have been mined in any case if the road or railway was being built.

Cyanide is a common solvent for gold extraction. It is extremely poisonous. It is however a highly unstable compound that does not accumulate in body tissue and breaks down in carbon and nitrogen very readily. Compared to the use of mercury which dominated the gold industry until 30 or so years ago, it is much less of an environmental threat. But it still has to be managed extremely carefully.

The article talked of indigenous lands, but does this necessarily mean that it is not in the interest of the traditional owners for min ing to occur on their land? There are many examples in Australia where the indigenous communities have a keen interest in the exploration for and mining of gold. The royalties are of major significance to these communities as are the local jobs that are created.

I think if you are trying to differentiate between dirty gold or clean gold, there are several significant issues that need to be considered. I would start by asking such questions as these:

1. Whether the granting of the mineral rightereclear and transparent and with the agreement of the traditional owners and local community.

2, Whether the overall environmental performance meets world best practice.

3. Whether there is proper occupational heath and safety practiced in the operation

4.Whether there exists a acceptable rehabilitation program for the site after minin ceases.

5. Is mercury being used?

6. Are world conventions for the exploitation of child labor being observed.

7. Are the employees being reasonably paid to work in these mines?

There are many more questions that should be considered.

If you are just against the mining of gold, then that is your right and you should directly say so. If you want to cut out the dirty gold business, then there are some important qualatitive questions that need to be asked

By: Craig Mackintosh

Craig Mackintosh — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 09:37:42 +0000

In contrast to fiat money – for sure. But, we shouldn’t be blind to the craziness of destroying the environment just to lock it all away back in the bowels of the earth (vaults) so it can sit there and represent value.

I’d be interested in your thoughts on Thomas’ thoughts here:

http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/08/money-literacy-part-i/

By: Johan

Johan — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 04:52:32 +0000

I agree with Tim that gold is a good money, in contrast to fiat money. Throughout history, in a free society, precious metals have emerged as the chosen money based on the characteristics that Tim mentioned. For anyone interested to learn more, do some reading on Austrian Economics. http://mises.org/money.asp

By: Glen Novello

Glen Novello — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 10:36:24 +0000

Golds only real value is its ability to stroke our egos through vanity and status. Cash is a perfectly good substitute for storing value if it is implemented and managed right.
I think we are in for the biggest Gold bubble ever seen where the price will just keep rising until people come to realise that you can’t eat Gold.

By: Tim Auld

Tim Auld — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 03:29:17 +0000

Gold is valuable because it’s the perfect currency: durable, divisible, portable, almost useless, fungible, hard to fake and rare. It’s an alternative to the corrupt fiat money that governments and banks create with reckless abandon, stealing wealth from people who save and letting those with debts off the hook while funding boondoggles.

I agree, Glen. Land, tools, materials, books, earthworks, seed, forests, etc. are better *real* investments, but land is still expensive, thanks to speculation and greed. Most land is not productively used, or it is mined and abused. People who understand these issues need to pool their money or work with existing land owners and start rebuilding renewable natural capital that we can actually live from.

I have a theory that gold can only be as valuable as the ability for society to realise that value, so if we have very little accessible natural wealth then gold isn’t worth much.

By: Glen Novello

Glen Novello — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:34:38 +0000

It still amazes me how a society can put so much value in something that has very little use.
All over the internet and other places, people that are becoming aware of the huge problems that we are beginning to face are being urged to put their saving into Gold as a means of protecting themselves from inflation. It must be working because you only have to look at the current price of gold to realise there must be great demand for it, and this demand makes it attractive for mining companies to rape more earth to get it.
To me it makes more sense to store wealth (not that I have any) in something that may be of use to us in the future, things like Copper or Aluminium will become much more valuable when its not viable to mine anymore because of huge energy costs.
The apple referred to in the bible should be replaced by a nugget of Gold, and then it would make sense.