Comments on: The Roots of Change – in Ourselves, or Government and Industry? http://permaculture.org.au/2009/07/13/the-roots-of-change-in-ourselves-or-government-and-industry/ Permaculture News, Commentary and Worldwide Projects. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 08:48:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Øyvind Holmstad http://permaculture.org.au/2009/07/13/the-roots-of-change-in-ourselves-or-government-and-industry/#comment-37891 Øyvind Holmstad Wed, 21 Oct 2009 07:07:05 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1634#comment-37891 Hei! I too believed in the capital system untill I bought a new flat from the biggest construction company in Norway, called Nordbohus, but their houses really does not fith to a northern climate (Nordbohus means houses fit to northerners). During the construction I understood it was pure garbage, using only the simplest materials, the simplest techniqes, very poore work, filled up with plastics, toxins and a disasterous indoor climate. The forms, measures and shapes were inadequate, and nothing had any personilasation. I could not live there. During this process I understood that when this was the best the capitalistic system could deliver, capitalism is not in benefit for human life and nature. I was teached the capitalistic system with competition would lead to better and better products, but realised that the outcome was the most inhuman garbage dwellings ever prodused in the history of mankind. So I throw avay capitalism at the garbage site of history, like I had done with sosialism before. First I found www.baubiologie.de and www.buildingbiology.net, and I understood all my observations about the construction industry in Norway were correct. I'm now a dedicated "Baubiologist". But still, after loosing my belief in capitalism, I had no system to fill my soul. Untill I learned about Permaculture a few months ago. No my soul is filled with Permaculture, and my life has again got meaning and direction. I will use the rest of my life to fight all these evil powers of our Western sosiety, like capitalism, sosialism, the middle class, New Age, sectorialism, parlamentarism, individualism, consuming culture, industrialist argiculture and construction and so on. I now feel like a living person again, my life is filled with meaning and goal. THANK YOU PERMACULTURE!!!! Hei!
I too believed in the capital system untill I bought a new flat from the biggest construction company in Norway, called Nordbohus, but their houses really does not fith to a northern climate (Nordbohus means houses fit to northerners). During the construction I understood it was pure garbage, using only the simplest materials, the simplest techniqes, very poore work, filled up with plastics, toxins and a disasterous indoor climate. The forms, measures and shapes were inadequate, and nothing had any personilasation. I could not live there.

During this process I understood that when this was the best the capitalistic system could deliver, capitalism is not in benefit for human life and nature. I was teached the capitalistic system with competition would lead to better and better products, but realised that the outcome was the most inhuman garbage dwellings ever prodused in the history of mankind. So I throw avay capitalism at the garbage site of history, like I had done with sosialism before.

First I found http://www.baubiologie.de and http://www.buildingbiology.net, and I understood all my observations about the construction industry in Norway were correct. I’m now a dedicated “Baubiologist”. But still, after loosing my belief in capitalism, I had no system to fill my soul. Untill I learned about Permaculture a few months ago. No my soul is filled with Permaculture, and my life has again got meaning and direction. I will use the rest of my life to fight all these evil powers of our Western sosiety, like capitalism, sosialism, the middle class, New Age, sectorialism, parlamentarism, individualism, consuming culture, industrialist argiculture and construction and so on. I now feel like a living person again, my life is filled with meaning and goal. THANK YOU PERMACULTURE!!!!

]]> By: Laurie Masters http://permaculture.org.au/2009/07/13/the-roots-of-change-in-ourselves-or-government-and-industry/#comment-35038 Laurie Masters Sat, 18 Jul 2009 03:32:38 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1634#comment-35038 Ethanol done the permaculture way is the diametric opposite of the production methods being practiced today. It's always possible to do a smart thing stupidly, but we can create abundant food AND fuel for the whole planet -- not only sustainably but regeneratively, with NO new technology. Check out www.alcoholcanbeagas.com. The Press Room has plenty of myth-busting information. As mind-blowing as Geoff Lawton's work ... Ethanol done the permaculture way is the diametric opposite of the production methods being practiced today. It’s always possible to do a smart thing stupidly, but we can create abundant food AND fuel for the whole planet — not only sustainably but regeneratively, with NO new technology. Check out http://www.alcoholcanbeagas.com. The Press Room has plenty of myth-busting information. As mind-blowing as Geoff Lawton’s work …

]]> By: Craig Mackintosh http://permaculture.org.au/2009/07/13/the-roots-of-change-in-ourselves-or-government-and-industry/#comment-35009 Craig Mackintosh Fri, 17 Jul 2009 05:15:00 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1634#comment-35009 Hi Audi - I'm not sure of the exact publication, but apparently <a href="http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=To+attract+companies+like+yours+%E2%80%A6+we+have+felled+mountains%2C+razed+jungles%2C+filled+swamps%2C+moved+rivers%2C+relocated+towns+%E2%80%A6+all+to+make+it+easier+for+you+and+your+business+to+do+business+here.+1975&btnG=Search&meta=" rel="nofollow">it was 1975</a>. Hi Audi – I’m not sure of the exact publication, but apparently it was 1975.

]]> By: Ted Howard http://permaculture.org.au/2009/07/13/the-roots-of-change-in-ourselves-or-government-and-industry/#comment-34975 Ted Howard Thu, 16 Jul 2009 05:43:24 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1634#comment-34975 Hi folks I personally side with Derrick Jensen on this. He advocates a whole raft of things, and where necessary as a situational tool, violence in defense of community and landbase, just as indigenous people have been doing for some time. He also advocates non-violent civil disobedience, teach people how to grow food, how to preserve and increase bio-diversity, live a low-footprint lifestyle. Don't paint him into a "violence-only" corner, go read his books! As he says constantly "we need it all."....including Permaculture. Go watch "What A Way To Go: Life At The End Of Empire" (http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/), and yes my name is in the credits, I was on the research team. I think the Permaculture design aka Transition Towns is a great way to wake up communities and break them out of the cultural crap (individualism, consumerism, industrialism) we're now stuck in. The "sustainable technology" is functional community: "Fall in love with your landbase, preserve and protect it as if your lives depend on it, which sooner than later,they surely will" Derrick Jensen. If you find his urgency and passion off-putting, remember, we're already into the 6th Mass Extinction, and some of us are speaking out in defense of our brother and sister species in this bio-diversity collapse, as those 200+ species disappearing each day have no voice in our culture. Derrick and others choose to speak up in their defense. Regards Ted Howard Nelson, NZ Hi folks
I personally side with Derrick Jensen on this. He advocates a whole raft of things, and where necessary as a situational tool, violence in defense of community and landbase, just as indigenous people have been doing for some time.

He also advocates non-violent civil disobedience, teach people how to grow food, how to preserve and increase bio-diversity, live a low-footprint lifestyle. Don’t paint him into a “violence-only” corner, go read his books! As he says constantly “we need it all.”….including Permaculture.

Go watch “What A Way To Go: Life At The End Of Empire”
(http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/), and yes my name is in the credits, I was on the research team.

I think the Permaculture design aka Transition Towns is a great way to wake up communities and break them out of the cultural crap (individualism, consumerism, industrialism) we’re now stuck in.

The “sustainable technology” is functional community:
“Fall in love with your landbase, preserve and protect it as if your lives depend on it, which sooner than later,they surely will” Derrick Jensen.

If you find his urgency and passion off-putting, remember, we’re already into the 6th Mass Extinction, and some of us are speaking out in defense of our brother and sister species in this bio-diversity collapse, as those 200+ species disappearing each day have no voice in our culture. Derrick and others choose to speak up in their defense.

Regards
Ted Howard
Nelson, NZ

]]> By: Audi http://permaculture.org.au/2009/07/13/the-roots-of-change-in-ourselves-or-government-and-industry/#comment-34966 Audi Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:04:52 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1634#comment-34966 Hi Craig. Thanks for your insights. You never fail to distill information from the seemingly complex to its simpler meaning. Anyway, I'm a Filipino follower of this website and it never ceases to amaze me how shameless our current government is. Would you care to share with us the date of the issue of Fortune magazine where you found the advert? Needless to say, this matter should have been on the front news! Hi Craig. Thanks for your insights. You never fail to distill information from the seemingly complex to its simpler meaning.

Anyway, I’m a Filipino follower of this website and it never ceases to amaze me how shameless our current government is. Would you care to share with us the date of the issue of Fortune magazine where you found the advert? Needless to say, this matter should have been on the front news!

]]> By: Leung ChiWan http://permaculture.org.au/2009/07/13/the-roots-of-change-in-ourselves-or-government-and-industry/#comment-34897 Leung ChiWan Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:02:02 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1634#comment-34897 There is NO doubt that the root of changes is in ourselves. The Government, the Industries and the Corporations are all built by human beings anyway. I believe most of "us" agree that simply change our lifestyles a little bit do not have any effect to the overall situation. However, we have to admit that we are only minorities in relation to those who still haven't wake up. Our population do not large enough to change any political decision. I tend to agree with the movie "The Day the Earth Stood Still" that radical event have to happen to wake up significant amount of people. By then, real changes will happen. May be 2012. May be the end of the Cenozoic era as predicted by Thomas Berry. For the time being, the only thing we could do, as Isaac said, is to get ourselves prepared and try to influence as many people as we could. There is NO doubt that the root of changes is in ourselves. The Government, the Industries and the Corporations are all built by human beings anyway.
I believe most of “us” agree that simply change our lifestyles a little bit do not have any effect to the overall situation. However, we have to admit that we are only minorities in relation to those who still haven’t wake up. Our population do not large enough to change any political decision. I tend to agree with the movie “The Day the Earth Stood Still” that radical event have to happen to wake up significant amount of people. By then, real changes will happen. May be 2012. May be the end of the Cenozoic era as predicted by Thomas Berry.
For the time being, the only thing we could do, as Isaac said, is to get ourselves prepared and try to influence as many people as we could.

]]> By: Mark Lim http://permaculture.org.au/2009/07/13/the-roots-of-change-in-ourselves-or-government-and-industry/#comment-34894 Mark Lim Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:46:39 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1634#comment-34894 Thanks for all the comments and insights. This "fight" towards a sustainable change will be a long haul but I like to share with you folks "down there" that what a small town of Bundanoon who recently voted to ban bottled water last Wednesday have caught the media attention in Singapore. It is causing some positive ripple and has caused many to rethink including some key people. So do not loss heart doing the small things for in no time bigger things will be given or come along towards a bigger change. Keep up the good work and keep on sharing and living the talk. Mark Lim Thanks for all the comments and insights. This “fight” towards a sustainable change will be a long haul but I like to share with you folks “down there” that what a small town of Bundanoon who recently voted to ban bottled water last Wednesday have caught the media attention in Singapore. It is causing some positive ripple and has caused many to rethink including some key people. So do not loss heart doing the small things for in no time bigger things will be given or come along towards a bigger change.

Keep up the good work and keep on sharing and living the talk.

Mark Lim

]]> By: Craig Mackintosh http://permaculture.org.au/2009/07/13/the-roots-of-change-in-ourselves-or-government-and-industry/#comment-34881 Craig Mackintosh Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:45:40 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1634#comment-34881 Thanks for your comment Isaac - I agree with all the points you've said. Re the public subsidising corporations, etc., this is the kind of stuff I've been railing against for a couple of years now. The last indented quotation I inserted into <a href="http://permaculture.org.au/2009/05/27/why-increased-energy-efficiency-wont-save-us/" rel="nofollow">this post</a> is worth a look in this regard (and the PDF linked to from there). Thanks for your comment Isaac – I agree with all the points you’ve said. Re the public subsidising corporations, etc., this is the kind of stuff I’ve been railing against for a couple of years now. The last indented quotation I inserted into this post is worth a look in this regard (and the PDF linked to from there).

]]> By: Craig Mackintosh http://permaculture.org.au/2009/07/13/the-roots-of-change-in-ourselves-or-government-and-industry/#comment-34879 Craig Mackintosh Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:39:49 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1634#comment-34879 Hi Straker - no, violence is certainly not on the agenda. The thing I'm concerned with is that the longer we delay necessary change, then the more likely we will end up really caught between a rock and a hard place (we already are...), and then violence will ensue. If only more people would understand what is happening, and what will happen, then maybe, just maybe, we could find a way to get people's attention away from the televisions for five minutes to discuss the best way to transition to a sustainable platform whilst minimising disruption (and death) as much as possible. P.S. I have never come across Derrick Jensen before, and know nothing of his thoughts other than the article I read. Hi Straker – no, violence is certainly not on the agenda. The thing I’m concerned with is that the longer we delay necessary change, then the more likely we will end up really caught between a rock and a hard place (we already are…), and then violence will ensue. If only more people would understand what is happening, and what will happen, then maybe, just maybe, we could find a way to get people’s attention away from the televisions for five minutes to discuss the best way to transition to a sustainable platform whilst minimising disruption (and death) as much as possible.

P.S. I have never come across Derrick Jensen before, and know nothing of his thoughts other than the article I read.

]]> By: Straker http://permaculture.org.au/2009/07/13/the-roots-of-change-in-ourselves-or-government-and-industry/#comment-34874 Straker Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:03:42 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1634#comment-34874 You do relize that the quote from Orion was from Derrick Jensen who wants us to blow up dams and cell phone towers. It's vitally important for political diatribes like this to clarify what the suggested course of action is. Otherwise radicalization and violence can result, and that's not something I permaculture supports, does it? You do relize that the quote from Orion was from Derrick Jensen who wants us to blow up dams and cell phone towers. It’s vitally important for political diatribes like this to clarify what the suggested course of action is. Otherwise radicalization and violence can result, and that’s not something I permaculture supports, does it?

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