I would highly recommend just taking a look to see if there is a venue in your area, as I believe they have a lot in common.

http://zday2010.org/

Thanks!

The next step is integrating PC on a broad scale for the benefit of everyone and realizing that technology is our stepping-stone to get there.

Firstly a quick explanation to the posters – Dean – TVP understands that we have finite resources and has developed a method of monitoring exactly what we have so that what we have is not going to be lost forever. In an RBE, if a resource is finite then utmost effort is made to discover substitutes that are not finite. Oil, finite. Therefore we use substitute products instead. Certain minerals, finite. Again, we use substitutes that are either found in abundance or artificially created (in the future this will probably incorporate nanotechnology). Using technology for the benefit of all.

Gabriel – in a sense it is an ultimatum. We employ a system whereby resources are managed effectively and technology is utilized in harmony with nature rather than against it, or we suffer the consequences. This system benefits ALL people, not just a select few. It frees us, rather than sees us enslaved. Regarding how ZA “turned you off” for “failing to point of the unsustainable nature of agriculture and amongst other things, I could not help but to notice that in it’s design it takes food production for granted” – That’s like saying an organic brocolli turned you off for not tasting like an organic carrot ☺. There was only limited time in the movie to explain a complex idea, hence it couldn’t go into too much detail about all aspects humanity has managed to get wrong. In a resource based economy (or an RBE) you can rest assured unsustainable agriculture will not occur, nor will unsustainable anything else. I imagine in an RBE permaculture principles would be employed with the utilization of the best technology we know of. Is large-scale permaculture a possibility? I’m not sure as I’m no permaculture expert, but I don’t see why not. The cities would probably use vertical farming, maybe automated organoponico gardens, who knows. Automated mulching droids? Imagination is our only limitation here.

Marc – Is it materialistic? We bring our own purpose and intentionality to life. I agree, these must be found within and not without. With the essentials provided via efficient use of technology we can have all the time in the world to do the things that bring us meaning, whether they be gardening, creating art, yoga, meditating, whatever. The purpose of the technology is to free us to follow our passions without the constraints we are subjected to in our current system (stresses about money, job security, lack of access to resources). Yes, in the current system we are able to bring spiritual meaning to mundane life, but with technology working for the benefit of all we have unlimited opportunity to explore our true potential both internally and externally.
Tim – in response to your second post – AT PRESENT our ability to deploy and maintain such infrustructure is limited. Classic example of how the monetary system holds us back. We have the technological capability to utilize renewable energy and we have the resources to make the equipment and distribute it. An RBE is not a pie in the sky high-tech revolution – it is the evolution of our planet. It is an incredible, logical, plausible and reasonable long-term vision. Someone in operations doesn’t resort to strategy. He does his job in operations (and we certainly need upbeat permies, keep up the good work!). If he chooses to oppose those coming up with good strategy (we’re all in the same organization here) then that’s of his own volition, but it would serve him to try to understand this strategy.

Dr Ward – Rest assured Jacques designs are based solely on engineering and scientific principles – he lives and breathes them and has one of the most impressive CV’s somebody interested in engineering and science could hope to have. Food, like everything else, will be produced by the best and most efficient means available. What is optimum food? Employing logic and reason, in a system not distorted via money optimum food would be (I imagine)
1) as nutrient-dense as possible
2) 100% non-toxic
3) Sustainably produced
4) As fresh as possible
Plants would receive the most suitable nutrients (as dictated via testing using the scientific method), probably organic fertilizer (if required), would be grown locally and would be delivered using optimum distribution. Or you could grow your own if you were a passionate gardener. We are talking about the most efficient system available here. Re material resources, in an RBE (as mentioned above) resources used will be selectively chosen that are non-depletive or produced artificially.
Mag Lev trains exist in Japan in antiquated form. Advanced versions have been invented and designed.
Do you trust your calculator or a spreadsheet to calculate your personal economics? Why or why not? Technology can be wonderful, like anything it can be abused or it can be put to use for the benefit of all.
An RBE is a long-term solution. Our present system is failing miserably and permaculture is of paramount importance during the transition to a system that utilizes technology to free humanity rather than enslave it. Permaculture is now. In the future, we can have this evolved version of permaculture that utilizes technology on a more grand scale if we choose to.

Nick – brilliant post. The Zeitgeist Movement Activist Orientation is a downloadable PDF and explains fundamentals and minutiae far better than I possibly can. I encourage all permies to take a look.

Brenton – not sure about the “don’t embarrass yourself comment” but yes, the New Z-land project is unrelated to TVP

Glen – Good call mate, it does take bravery. It’s not easy to see anything other than doom and gloom when attempting to look into a crystal ball. Here and now is the only place we can take action, this is where we are empowered and this is what I love about permaculture. Permaculture is evolution on the small scale, getting chickens to work for us rather than against us, using companion planting to work for us rather than against us, using technology to irrigate. A resourse based economy is our evolution on the the grand scale.

I think the films and the direction of the Venus Project over all is excellent. Look further into it, is all I can say.

The Zeitgeist Movement, the activist front for the Venus Project is conceptual. It makes no claims other than “application of The Scientific Method for social concerns”

That is what you (permaculture) and almost all other social/ecological organisations are doing.. No one WANTS to do the wrong thing and to determine the right path we must use the logic inherent in the scientific method.

Getting caught up in the details is counter-productive.. i would direct your attention to what has happened since the two zeitgeist films.. A more in depth presentation as well as an Activist Orientation Guide that addresses many of the concerns people have. Also look up the New Z-Land Project.. it’s documentation goes into specifics of the design.

As to the claim that it’s ‘Your either with us or against’ Peter Joseph is simply stating that the problems of ‘Cyclical Consumption’ and ‘Technological Unemployment’ are problems we HAVE to deal with..

I found the conspiracy theories in the first film very scary (especially the thought that so much power is concentrated in so few hands) but do not know the validity of the claims. I did find myself wondering why, if the world is utterly controlled by the Morgans/Rockefellers/Rothschilds, then why do they allow the richest people in the world to be folks like Bill Gates?

Anyway, after watching Addendum I felt compelled to look up The Venus Project for more information. It was put forth in the film almost as though it was a fully blueprinted solution. What we actually see is that it is no more than a series of pretty pictures by talented graphic designers using 3D rendering software: there isn’t any engineering or science behind it. (As an engineer and a scientist this really got to me!)

Several things really jumped out at me. First, food received virtually no mention. Second, material resources are assumed to be in infinite supply (once the renewable energy supply is secure, all materials will be forthcoming). Third, the technology shown in the pictures and referred to in the descriptions (such as intercontinental Mag-Lev trains) is totally unproven or in many cases not even invented yet. And there is NO WAY I would trust computers to go solo managing the world’s resources, politics and economy.

But I’m most concerned that The Venus Project, with its spectacular 3D drawings, may be extremely attractive to people who have awoken to the magnitude of the crisis, but find permaculture too hard, and could be another justification for blaming the conspirators, and for doing nothing practical about it.