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	<title>Comments on: Vetiver Grass &#8211; A Hedge Against Erosion</title>
	<atom:link href="http://permaculture.org.au/2009/01/19/vetiver-grass-a-hedge-against-erosion/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2009/01/19/vetiver-grass-a-hedge-against-erosion/</link>
	<description>Permaculture News, Commentary and Worldwide Projects.</description>
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		<title>By: Paul Ryan</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2009/01/19/vetiver-grass-a-hedge-against-erosion/#comment-93226</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2011 09:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1004#comment-93226</guid>
		<description>Don

I am located in Brisbane.  Although it can get quite cold at our place (we get a few frosts most years) I do not think that cold would be the issue.  I will take a look for the cicadas.

I will cut mine right back to the ground as you have.  I will do a couple now, but leave the rest until spring to see the different results I get.  The problem I have found is that once they die back and are cut back - the remaining dead stalks get in the way of any new growth.  Therefore cutting right down - pretty much to ground level, may do the trick in getting a rejuvinated and attractive plant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don</p>
<p>I am located in Brisbane.  Although it can get quite cold at our place (we get a few frosts most years) I do not think that cold would be the issue.  I will take a look for the cicadas.</p>
<p>I will cut mine right back to the ground as you have.  I will do a couple now, but leave the rest until spring to see the different results I get.  The problem I have found is that once they die back and are cut back &#8211; the remaining dead stalks get in the way of any new growth.  Therefore cutting right down &#8211; pretty much to ground level, may do the trick in getting a rejuvinated and attractive plant.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Miller</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2009/01/19/vetiver-grass-a-hedge-against-erosion/#comment-90489</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2011 09:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1004#comment-90489</guid>
		<description>Hi Paul.  Where are you located?  In climate zones marginal to Vetiver growth the shading of the soil by foliage as the plant matures can lead to significant lowering of soil temperature.  In Gisborne, NZ, (38 S) my very healthy 2 year old plants had mostly died by year 4.

I found I needed to mow in early summer down to a height of about 25mm and rake all debris off the soil to allow direct solar radiation onto the soil.  On a sunny November day that could lead to an increase in soil temperature of around 5 C at 100mm depth after only 6 to 8 hours.  The impact on plant growth was immediate.

I also had a major problem with cicada nymphs targeting the roots of the Vetiver (around 300 per sq metre) which I put down to inadequate concentrations of the oil in the roots due to the low soil temperatures.  Vetiver oil usually has insecticidal properties in tropical zones.

I would be very interested to hear if you find large numbers of cicada nymphs in your plants - try skimming off the top 20mm of soil and see how many cicada holes you uncover.  Mine were centred on the plants like bullet holes around a target.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Paul.  Where are you located?  In climate zones marginal to Vetiver growth the shading of the soil by foliage as the plant matures can lead to significant lowering of soil temperature.  In Gisborne, NZ, (38 S) my very healthy 2 year old plants had mostly died by year 4.</p>
<p>I found I needed to mow in early summer down to a height of about 25mm and rake all debris off the soil to allow direct solar radiation onto the soil.  On a sunny November day that could lead to an increase in soil temperature of around 5 C at 100mm depth after only 6 to 8 hours.  The impact on plant growth was immediate.</p>
<p>I also had a major problem with cicada nymphs targeting the roots of the Vetiver (around 300 per sq metre) which I put down to inadequate concentrations of the oil in the roots due to the low soil temperatures.  Vetiver oil usually has insecticidal properties in tropical zones.</p>
<p>I would be very interested to hear if you find large numbers of cicada nymphs in your plants &#8211; try skimming off the top 20mm of soil and see how many cicada holes you uncover.  Mine were centred on the plants like bullet holes around a target.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Ryan</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2009/01/19/vetiver-grass-a-hedge-against-erosion/#comment-90001</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2011 05:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1004#comment-90001</guid>
		<description>Great post.  I have used vetiver extensively around my small 1 acre block in an effort to stabilise a gully and also as a chop anc drop plant to assist in weed control.

Strangely I have found that the plants which I put along my gully have tended to do very well for the first year or two, but then die back.  I&#039;ve chopped them back heavilly when this has occurred, but they have either not come back, or come back poorly.  In future I will follow the advice above and keep the plants to about 50cm high and also prevent them from seeding - perhaps that will help.  Can anybody advise how close to the ground you can cut back without it doing the plant any damage.  For these plants which have died back substantially, should I chop them right back to ground level?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  I have used vetiver extensively around my small 1 acre block in an effort to stabilise a gully and also as a chop anc drop plant to assist in weed control.</p>
<p>Strangely I have found that the plants which I put along my gully have tended to do very well for the first year or two, but then die back.  I&#8217;ve chopped them back heavilly when this has occurred, but they have either not come back, or come back poorly.  In future I will follow the advice above and keep the plants to about 50cm high and also prevent them from seeding &#8211; perhaps that will help.  Can anybody advise how close to the ground you can cut back without it doing the plant any damage.  For these plants which have died back substantially, should I chop them right back to ground level?</p>
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		<title>By: Glen Novello</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2009/01/19/vetiver-grass-a-hedge-against-erosion/#comment-44342</link>
		<dc:creator>Glen Novello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 11:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1004#comment-44342</guid>
		<description>would vetiver be suitable for areas with regular winter frosts? I can&#039;t seem to find where I could obtain some from, does anyone know of a good supplier in Australia?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>would vetiver be suitable for areas with regular winter frosts? I can&#8217;t seem to find where I could obtain some from, does anyone know of a good supplier in Australia?</p>
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		<title>By: john greenfield</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2009/01/19/vetiver-grass-a-hedge-against-erosion/#comment-44149</link>
		<dc:creator>john greenfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 22:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1004#comment-44149</guid>
		<description>As the man that started the modern vetiver revolution way back in fiji in the 1950s, I would appreciate your getting my name right, not as quoted in the above &quot; This deeply rooted, persistent grass has restrained erodable soils for decades in India, the Caribbean and in Fiji, where its use was discovered by John Greenwood in the late 1950s&quot;  GREENWOOD I am not, try  John Greenfield!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the man that started the modern vetiver revolution way back in fiji in the 1950s, I would appreciate your getting my name right, not as quoted in the above &#8221; This deeply rooted, persistent grass has restrained erodable soils for decades in India, the Caribbean and in Fiji, where its use was discovered by John Greenwood in the late 1950s&#8221;  GREENWOOD I am not, try  John Greenfield!</p>
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		<title>By: Dick Grimshaw</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2009/01/19/vetiver-grass-a-hedge-against-erosion/#comment-39844</link>
		<dc:creator>Dick Grimshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1004#comment-39844</guid>
		<description>Ref: vetiver and infiltration.  The standard practice in Ethiopia for soil and water conservation has generally been through the use of terraces known as &quot;fanyaju&quot;.  This has led to many problems not least the habit that they provide for rodents. Over the past 20 years Ethiopian wetlands have dried up.  following the introduction of vetiver hedges there has been significant improvement in wetland restoration dues to vetiver&#039;s capacity to improve rainfall infiltration. These changes are so significant that the Ethiopian Wetland Association is one of the leading promoters of watershed stabilization using vetiver. There is an interesting article at:http://www.vetiver.org/ETH_WORKSHOP_09/ETH_A2a.pdf

Other evidence from Ehiopia shows the newal of year round potable spring water in areas where vetiver has been used extensively for upland soil and water conservation.

The issue of mycorrhiza. Containerised vetiver will usually have mycorrhiza when planted out.  However it is expensive to propagate in this way.  Bare rooted plants normally grow very well and will acquire mycorrhiza in the process. At least 95% of the vetiver planted world wide is bare rooted.

Heavy metals: research indicates that except for lead most of the heavy metals are retained in the roots of vetiver and that it is safe to use the leaves for forage, mulch etc.

Slope stabilization: whatever slope it is important apply the technology correctly.  Failures reportd in Vietnam were due to (a) some untrained contractors been used for planting and (b) failure due to inherently difficult slopes and soils where the failure surface is lower than the depth of the vetiver roots.

Dick Grimshaw</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ref: vetiver and infiltration.  The standard practice in Ethiopia for soil and water conservation has generally been through the use of terraces known as &#8220;fanyaju&#8221;.  This has led to many problems not least the habit that they provide for rodents. Over the past 20 years Ethiopian wetlands have dried up.  following the introduction of vetiver hedges there has been significant improvement in wetland restoration dues to vetiver&#8217;s capacity to improve rainfall infiltration. These changes are so significant that the Ethiopian Wetland Association is one of the leading promoters of watershed stabilization using vetiver. There is an interesting article at:http://www.vetiver.org/ETH_WORKSHOP_09/ETH_A2a.pdf</p>
<p>Other evidence from Ehiopia shows the newal of year round potable spring water in areas where vetiver has been used extensively for upland soil and water conservation.</p>
<p>The issue of mycorrhiza. Containerised vetiver will usually have mycorrhiza when planted out.  However it is expensive to propagate in this way.  Bare rooted plants normally grow very well and will acquire mycorrhiza in the process. At least 95% of the vetiver planted world wide is bare rooted.</p>
<p>Heavy metals: research indicates that except for lead most of the heavy metals are retained in the roots of vetiver and that it is safe to use the leaves for forage, mulch etc.</p>
<p>Slope stabilization: whatever slope it is important apply the technology correctly.  Failures reportd in Vietnam were due to (a) some untrained contractors been used for planting and (b) failure due to inherently difficult slopes and soils where the failure surface is lower than the depth of the vetiver roots.</p>
<p>Dick Grimshaw</p>
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		<title>By: Don Miller</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2009/01/19/vetiver-grass-a-hedge-against-erosion/#comment-39836</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 10:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1004#comment-39836</guid>
		<description>I cannot agree with the comments regarding swale versus vetiver hedge.  The sediment trapped by the contour vetiver hedge also contains any light organic matter that is washed downslope - animal dung, leaves etc.  Because of this a very high infiltration rate can be maintained above the hedge.  In a swale light organic material floats and mainly fine sediment sinks to the bottom creating a silt layer of low permeability. 

A swale has a high risk of overtopping with consequential concentration of water flow and disastrous rill erosion.  That cannot happen with a vetiver hedge.  They are self leveling as any low spot traps a greater amount of sediment - magic.

The roots of the vetiver plant facilitate infiltration, possibly by penetrating compacted soil horizons, although other mechanisms may be significant.

My own work in the Pacific has shown that small catchments that had effectively no water storage developed quite different hydrological characteristics after vetiver hedges had trapped moving sediment and formed just small terraces.  The water stored during rain events in those terraces was released over several days, which illustrated just how much water had infiltrated and how it had been retained in the trapped sediment.

Don&#039;t underestimate the value of the vetiver hedge until you have tried it.  I have been using the technique for 20 years now without disappointment.

Don Miller
Vanuatu</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot agree with the comments regarding swale versus vetiver hedge.  The sediment trapped by the contour vetiver hedge also contains any light organic matter that is washed downslope &#8211; animal dung, leaves etc.  Because of this a very high infiltration rate can be maintained above the hedge.  In a swale light organic material floats and mainly fine sediment sinks to the bottom creating a silt layer of low permeability. </p>
<p>A swale has a high risk of overtopping with consequential concentration of water flow and disastrous rill erosion.  That cannot happen with a vetiver hedge.  They are self leveling as any low spot traps a greater amount of sediment &#8211; magic.</p>
<p>The roots of the vetiver plant facilitate infiltration, possibly by penetrating compacted soil horizons, although other mechanisms may be significant.</p>
<p>My own work in the Pacific has shown that small catchments that had effectively no water storage developed quite different hydrological characteristics after vetiver hedges had trapped moving sediment and formed just small terraces.  The water stored during rain events in those terraces was released over several days, which illustrated just how much water had infiltrated and how it had been retained in the trapped sediment.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t underestimate the value of the vetiver hedge until you have tried it.  I have been using the technique for 20 years now without disappointment.</p>
<p>Don Miller<br />
Vanuatu</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Johnson</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2009/01/19/vetiver-grass-a-hedge-against-erosion/#comment-39822</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 22:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1004#comment-39822</guid>
		<description>Vetiver or khus khus grass does a wonderful job filtering sediment but is not a substitute for swale and berm, which allow actual water storage and infiltration.  Note that it is mycorrhizal, so put some old root soil in new planting holes to get the fungi established; don&#039;t buy bare, cleaned roots. Only trained personnel should design plantings on more than a 1:1 (45 degree) slope. In Vietnam, poorly designed plantings have failed (no duh!). Don&#039;t use it as forage if you have heavy metals, it will uptake them. Suitable for planting one plant wide on property borders; forms underground hedgerow against moles, who hate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vetiver or khus khus grass does a wonderful job filtering sediment but is not a substitute for swale and berm, which allow actual water storage and infiltration.  Note that it is mycorrhizal, so put some old root soil in new planting holes to get the fungi established; don&#8217;t buy bare, cleaned roots. Only trained personnel should design plantings on more than a 1:1 (45 degree) slope. In Vietnam, poorly designed plantings have failed (no duh!). Don&#8217;t use it as forage if you have heavy metals, it will uptake them. Suitable for planting one plant wide on property borders; forms underground hedgerow against moles, who hate it.</p>
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		<title>By: R.VINOTH</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2009/01/19/vetiver-grass-a-hedge-against-erosion/#comment-30755</link>
		<dc:creator>R.VINOTH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 10:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1004#comment-30755</guid>
		<description>sir iwant vettiver processing and uses</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sir iwant vettiver processing and uses</p>
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		<title>By: Don Miller</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2009/01/19/vetiver-grass-a-hedge-against-erosion/#comment-30025</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 01:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1004#comment-30025</guid>
		<description>An excellent and accurate article by Richard Webb.  I have been using vetiver grass to control soil erosion on various Pacific Islands for almost 20 years and have yet to discover any problem associated with it. The vetiver grass plantings have made very positive impacts on coral reef sedimentation while also allowing the restoration of indigenous forest on the worst types of gully erosion.

Check out:http://www.vetiver.org/VAN_REEF/VAN-reef2.htm for further details.  An email address is included there if further information is needed.  I will be happy to forward a higher definition version of that presentation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An excellent and accurate article by Richard Webb.  I have been using vetiver grass to control soil erosion on various Pacific Islands for almost 20 years and have yet to discover any problem associated with it. The vetiver grass plantings have made very positive impacts on coral reef sedimentation while also allowing the restoration of indigenous forest on the worst types of gully erosion.</p>
<p>Check out:http://www.vetiver.org/VAN_REEF/VAN-reef2.htm for further details.  An email address is included there if further information is needed.  I will be happy to forward a higher definition version of that presentation.</p>
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