<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd"
	xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Which Came First &#8211; Pests, or Pesticides?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/</link>
	<description>Permaculture News, Commentary and Worldwide Projects.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 08:48:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/#comment-216368</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-216368</guid>
		<description>Ah, yes, the predators.

I was only thinking of natural insecticides produced by the plants themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, yes, the predators.</p>
<p>I was only thinking of natural insecticides produced by the plants themselves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Craig Mackintosh PRI Editor</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/#comment-216361</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Mackintosh PRI Editor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-216361</guid>
		<description>Did you read the article Daniel?

It&#039;s pretty hard, for example, for an aphid to become resistant to a lady bug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you read the article Daniel?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s pretty hard, for example, for an aphid to become resistant to a lady bug.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/#comment-216360</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-216360</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a bit puzzled, if pest insects/fungi became resistant to the synthetic chemicals, aren&#039;t they also resistant to the natural ones?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a bit puzzled, if pest insects/fungi became resistant to the synthetic chemicals, aren&#8217;t they also resistant to the natural ones?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jennifer Reid</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/#comment-49986</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 02:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-49986</guid>
		<description>Have you seen 
www.oisat.org

GREAT solutions !!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you seen<br />
<a href="http://www.oisat.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.oisat.org</a></p>
<p>GREAT solutions !!!!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Casey</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/#comment-27471</link>
		<dc:creator>Casey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-27471</guid>
		<description>Good article.  It makes sense that predator bugs will die off along with the pests, creating a pest-pesticide proliferation race.  But it seems unfair to indict all of industrial agriculture in totality on this basis.  In economic terms alone, we just could not feed everyone without doing large-scale monocultures.  Border crops are a good innovation but they only serve to protect the monoculture.  I don&#039;t see genetic engineering a a big boogeyman either.  It is nothing more than an accelerated way to do the same traditional crop breeding we&#039;ve done for millenia.  In fact, if employed intelligently, I think genetic engineering could even be used to eliminate pesticides completely and safely, and permit growth of monocultures capable of supporting a balanced pest/predator ecology without also having to tolerate crop productivity losses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article.  It makes sense that predator bugs will die off along with the pests, creating a pest-pesticide proliferation race.  But it seems unfair to indict all of industrial agriculture in totality on this basis.  In economic terms alone, we just could not feed everyone without doing large-scale monocultures.  Border crops are a good innovation but they only serve to protect the monoculture.  I don&#8217;t see genetic engineering a a big boogeyman either.  It is nothing more than an accelerated way to do the same traditional crop breeding we&#8217;ve done for millenia.  In fact, if employed intelligently, I think genetic engineering could even be used to eliminate pesticides completely and safely, and permit growth of monocultures capable of supporting a balanced pest/predator ecology without also having to tolerate crop productivity losses.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/#comment-27469</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-27469</guid>
		<description>Generally, this is a well thought-out account, but I think it has a few problems.  First, the idea that pests only go to plants that are otherwise unhealthy is untrue.  If you leave the world of agriculture, you can see examples of this everywhere - think of the tree species decimated by invasive pests (elms being a great example).  Sometimes, pests will preferentially go to an unhealthy plant (possibly because it is more &quot;apparent&quot; to the pests due to emission of volatile chemicals), but not as a rule.

Second, most pesticides don&#039;t actually harm the plants - they usually (nowadays in developed countries at least) are very target-specific.  This isn&#039;t to say they aren&#039;t bad for the environment - they are - but not usually for the plants.  

Finally, while intercropping and other uses of &gt;1 plant to reduce pest pressure have some effect on pest densities (usually because its harder for a pest to see a row of its host than a vast field), there is actually relatively little support that this increases the effectivity of beneficial insects.  

Thus, I think your analysis is a bit simplistic, if a good intro for laymen.  But importantly, you also don&#039;t give any good solutions.  Where is the discussion about biological control?  About breeding resistant crops?  About, dare I say it, the potential of transgenic crops to reduce pesticide use (sure it has its problems, but it can certainly reduce pesticide application)?

All this aside, good post.  I&#039;m glad to see this kind of thinking in blogs, with at least some science behind it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generally, this is a well thought-out account, but I think it has a few problems.  First, the idea that pests only go to plants that are otherwise unhealthy is untrue.  If you leave the world of agriculture, you can see examples of this everywhere &#8211; think of the tree species decimated by invasive pests (elms being a great example).  Sometimes, pests will preferentially go to an unhealthy plant (possibly because it is more &#8220;apparent&#8221; to the pests due to emission of volatile chemicals), but not as a rule.</p>
<p>Second, most pesticides don&#8217;t actually harm the plants &#8211; they usually (nowadays in developed countries at least) are very target-specific.  This isn&#8217;t to say they aren&#8217;t bad for the environment &#8211; they are &#8211; but not usually for the plants.  </p>
<p>Finally, while intercropping and other uses of &gt;1 plant to reduce pest pressure have some effect on pest densities (usually because its harder for a pest to see a row of its host than a vast field), there is actually relatively little support that this increases the effectivity of beneficial insects.  </p>
<p>Thus, I think your analysis is a bit simplistic, if a good intro for laymen.  But importantly, you also don&#8217;t give any good solutions.  Where is the discussion about biological control?  About breeding resistant crops?  About, dare I say it, the potential of transgenic crops to reduce pesticide use (sure it has its problems, but it can certainly reduce pesticide application)?</p>
<p>All this aside, good post.  I&#8217;m glad to see this kind of thinking in blogs, with at least some science behind it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lamare</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/#comment-27449</link>
		<dc:creator>lamare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-27449</guid>
		<description>I like the twist at the end...nicely done Graig</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the twist at the end&#8230;nicely done Graig</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robyn Williamson</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/#comment-26580</link>
		<dc:creator>Robyn Williamson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 08:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-26580</guid>
		<description>A superb account of how modern agriculture created &quot;pests&quot; in the same way that it created &quot;weeds&quot;.  This has given rise to the prevailing wisdom (read: stupidity) that &quot;weeds&quot; are &quot;anything growing in a cotton, rice, corn, soyabean, canola or wheat field that is not cotton, rice, corn, soyabean, canola or wheat&quot;.

Check out http://www.weedinfo.com.au/bk_weedsosea.html  Check out the list of 2,000 species of so-called &quot;weeds&quot; where you will find scores of edible and otherwise useful plant species tarnished with the label of weed, ironically Brassica x napus (canola)  but also ginger (Zingiber officinalis), coriander (Coriandrum sativum) and garlic (Allium sativum), 3 of my favourite foods.  I was amazed to open the sample page (p.241) and see pumpkin, another one of my favourites.  Why is pumpkin classified as a weed?  Because it is &quot;occasionally found naturalised in rubbish dumps or along roadsides&quot;.  I think the most amusing &quot;weed&quot; I found on the list though is Acacia pycnantha, the floral emblem of Australia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A superb account of how modern agriculture created &#8220;pests&#8221; in the same way that it created &#8220;weeds&#8221;.  This has given rise to the prevailing wisdom (read: stupidity) that &#8220;weeds&#8221; are &#8220;anything growing in a cotton, rice, corn, soyabean, canola or wheat field that is not cotton, rice, corn, soyabean, canola or wheat&#8221;.</p>
<p>Check out <a href="http://www.weedinfo.com.au/bk_weedsosea.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.weedinfo.com.au/bk_weedsosea.html</a>  Check out the list of 2,000 species of so-called &#8220;weeds&#8221; where you will find scores of edible and otherwise useful plant species tarnished with the label of weed, ironically Brassica x napus (canola)  but also ginger (Zingiber officinalis), coriander (Coriandrum sativum) and garlic (Allium sativum), 3 of my favourite foods.  I was amazed to open the sample page (p.241) and see pumpkin, another one of my favourites.  Why is pumpkin classified as a weed?  Because it is &#8220;occasionally found naturalised in rubbish dumps or along roadsides&#8221;.  I think the most amusing &#8220;weed&#8221; I found on the list though is Acacia pycnantha, the floral emblem of Australia.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/#comment-25797</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-25797</guid>
		<description>Great article Craig. Monsanto are not going to like you. In fact if you check out their webpage at http://www.monsanto.com.au/ and look at their video clip you&#039;ll see that the war of disinformation has begun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article Craig. Monsanto are not going to like you. In fact if you check out their webpage at <a href="http://www.monsanto.com.au/" rel="nofollow">http://www.monsanto.com.au/</a> and look at their video clip you&#8217;ll see that the war of disinformation has begun.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

